Podcast Episode #14 - Fear vs. Trust: What it actually takes to build a High-Performance Culture
Emily Moses
Founder & Fractional CPO - Leave Your Mark
Podcast Transcript: Fear vs. Trust: What it actually takes to build a High-Performance Culture
Host: Roger Johnson, Founder of Vivero Leadership
Special Guest: Emily Moses , Founder & Fractional CPO at Leave Your Mark
Roger: Welcome to the No More Carbon Copies podcast. On this show, we talk about leadership, self-awareness, and the reality that many leaders don't actually know themselves very well. When that happens, they often cap their own leadership trajectory, limit their impact, and inadvertently self-sabotage.
We want to challenge leaders to discover who they uniquely are and lead from that foundation, rather than trying to conform to the styles of the people around them.
Today, I’m excited to have Emily Moses with us. Emily, how do you like to introduce yourself to people?
Emily: Thank you, Roger, for having me. I love this topic.
I’m originally from Anniston, Alabama, but I’ve been in Nashville and working in the healthcare space for almost 20 years. Interestingly, I actually started my career majoring in apparel merchandising and design. I love telling people that because it shows you that you think you have your path figured out, and sometimes life goes in the complete opposite direction.
My stepdad owned his own executive search firm for decades, and growing up, I jokingly said I wanted to do what he did because it looked like all he did was talk on the phone and play golf. But my life really groomed me for a career in HR—or what I prefer to call "People and Culture". Sometimes I say I lean into being an undercover pastor or counselor.
After leading people and culture at several healthcare startups, I finally asked myself, "What is enough?" That led me to launch my company, Leave Your Mark, about two and a half years ago. We focus on healthcare recruiting and fractional Chief People Officer roles, helping organizations lay the foundation they need to scale.
The Relentless Pursuit of "More"
Roger: Your paths and mine have crossed over the past year, and it’s been exciting because we are on a very similar journey. One of the massive milestones in your life recently is that you wrote a book called Enough: The Relentless Pursuit of More. What inspired you to write it, and who is it for?
Emily: In full transparency, my husband and I hit that 45-year-old mark. If you haven't figured out who you are by mid-life, life is going to come at you real quick.
One day, I was driving down Franklin Road, looking at all these beautiful houses and cars, and I had this sudden realization: What are we doing all of this for? I was exhausted and my calendar was jam-packed with meetings. I told my counselor that I just wanted a car tag that said "ENOUGH". She looked at me and said, "Or, you could write a book about that. You have a unique perspective given your role, being from a small town, and now living in Williamson County."
My Type A, Enneagram 3 brain immediately added it to my goal list! Eventually, I partnered with a ghostwriter, and the book was born.
The core message is simple: If you don’t define your "enough," you will always keep moving the needle. I was talking to so many other leaders who were feeling this exact same exhaustion, and I wanted to share my journey.
Why We Struggle to Accept Our Own Value
Roger: In the book, you mention that it is highly uncomfortable for people to dwell on their positive traits or celebrate what they do well. Because of this, they decrease their confidence during tough times and try to copy the leaders around them. Why do you think we are so uncomfortable embracing our own unique gifting?
Emily: It really comes down to the words deserving and worthy. We work so hard because we think we have to do everything on our own.
Personally, my spiritual belief is that you have to know your Creator to fully know yourself. Once you understand that you were intentionally created, you realize you don't have to work quite so hard to prove your worth. You can rely on a power greater than yourself.
But in the business world, we see a massive mindset struggle. You have CEOs and COOs who have earned their titles, yet they are quietly drowning in imposter syndrome because, deep down, they don’t feel like they deserve to be there.
Roger: It’s an interesting internal battle. On one hand, you’re competing for promotions, climbing this imaginary ladder, and trying to prove your worth. On the other hand, your inner critic is telling you that you aren’t as good as the next person. We live in this constant state of comparison.
Emily: Exactly. We get trapped by this term "high-performance culture." I’ve been a high performer my whole life, from playing sports to corporate life. But at some point, you have to ask: When is it enough? When can I just sit back and be okay with who I am?
Roger: I think many leaders fear that if they accept themselves as "enough," they will lose their edge or stop being driven. We wear dissatisfaction like a badge of honor. But I don't believe that's true anymore. Loving who you are doesn’t reduce your effectiveness; it enhances it.
Understanding Your "Sweet Spot"
Roger: From your HR background, what wisdom have you gained about this concept of high performance and the pressure organizations place on people to conform to a specific mold?
Emily: The common theme I see—from hourly workers to first-time startup founders—is that the happiest, most fulfilled people are those who understand their Ikigai, or their purpose. They are clear on what they do that brings value, and what the world actually needs.
When I’m recruiting or helping people navigate job changes, I always challenge them: While you look for a job, use this moment to understand and look for yourself.
So many people feel like they don’t have a choice. They say, "I have to do this soul-sucking job because we’ve set up a lifestyle that depends on it." But staying in unhealthy environments for the wrong reasons is a choice.
I have a genetic heart condition that my mom, grandfather, and great-grandfather had. Having that perspective makes you realize how short life is and how every day is a gift. You can spend your life trying to make others proud, or you can get your priorities right and focus on what actually matters in the end.
If your job isn't bringing you joy, what are you doing about it? When joy is gone, you become someone that others don't enjoy being around. We will put deep strategic work into our companies and our bonuses, but we won't pause to do the work on ourselves.
Roger: I call that alignment the "Sweet Spot." It’s the intersection of your unique competencies, the value you bring, and the activities that motivate you and bring you joy.
For years, I operated in a space where I was good at my job and provided value, but I completely ignored the joy and motivation side. I ended up totally burnt out.
And this isn't just a mid-level manager problem. I see senior executives, owners, and C-suite leaders struggling with this exact mismatch. They sit across from me, take the mask off, and admit they are miserable but feel they can't tell anyone.
Emily: "The mask" is the perfect word for it. You have a choice of what you want to be known for. I want to tell these leaders: Come alive. You are living, but you are not actually alive.
Leading with Compassion and Radical Truth
Roger: When leaders find themselves at a plateau or in transition, what do they need to do to adjust their trajectory?
Emily: It starts with a mindset shift. Instead of viewing a job transition with a grief mindset—thinking, "This was done to me, and my confidence is shot"—reframe it. Tell yourself: "This had to happen because I never would have left on my own. Now, the next chapter is up to me."
It is uncomfortable, but you have to sit down and write a list of what you are actually good at, what you enjoy, and what others have validated about you.
I recently worked with a corporate client that redefined their company values, and they chose "compassion" as one of them. A lot of the executives in the room resisted, thinking it sounded too soft. But when we looked closer, we realized compassion isn't just about being "nice". Compassion is about direct, two-way feedback.
My grandmother was a tough-but-soft Southern woman. If she corrected my posture, I knew she was doing it because she loved me enough to tell me the truth. In business, we often hold back from giving direct feedback because we don't want to hurt feelings. But withholding the truth actually hurts people worse.
Giving feedback is a muscle. When you receive or deliver it from a place of support and clarity, it becomes a massive gift.
Roger: It is a lack of courage to watch someone shoot themselves in the foot week after week and just smile and nod. Truly caring about your people means telling them the truth.
Shifting from Fear to Trust
Roger: What stops leadership teams from moving past standard HR operations and truly embracing a transformative "People and Culture" strategy?
Emily: It almost always stops with the senior leader. It’s the executive who thinks they already know everything and don't need a coach or outside perspective.
If a leader operates with a desire to control everything, a growth mindset cannot exist. You have to live open-handed. When you are open to what is possible, you can build a team of smart people to do the work through you. A narcissistic or control-driven leadership style might get a business to a certain level, but it will prevent it from ever scaling to the next phase.
Ultimately, you get to choose: Do you want a culture built on fear, or a culture built on love?
When a culture is driven by fear, people feel like they can't say "no" or voice dissent. That fear destroys psychological safety. Without safety, you can never build trust—and without trust, you will never get the sustainable high-performance results you want.
But when you build a foundation of trust, and your people know you genuinely believe in them, they will do anything for you.
Roger: I love that. It’s about building a culture where people are free to bring their full intelligence and strategic thinking to the table. Emily, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and heart with us today.
Emily: Thank you for having me, Roger!
Resources & Links:
Vivero Leadership www.viveroleadership.com
Leadership Sweet Spot Tool https://vivero.squarespace.com/sweetspotpdf
Connect with our guest Emily Moses at Leave Your Mark https://goleaveyourmark.com/
Connect with Roger Johnson on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogercjohnson/)