Podcast Episode #7 - with Meghan Mouser
Meghan Mouser
VP of Product Management
SHOW NOTES
Embracing Leadership Authority and Influence
In this conversation, Meghan Mouser discusses the importance of embracing one's authority and influence in personal and professional settings. She emphasizes the need to stop seeking permission and to recognize the value that others see in us. The dialogue explores the journey of overcoming self-doubt and the steps necessary to take action confidently.
TRANSCRIPT
Roger Johnson (00:01)
All right. Hi, Megan. Thank you for joining me today on this ⁓ No Carbon Copies podcast. Welcome.
Meghan Mouser (00:11)
Thanks Roger, it's great to be here.
Roger Johnson (00:13)
Well, good. ⁓ Excited to this conversation with you. ⁓ And we'll ⁓ kind of jump right in. We talk about a couple of things here on the podcast, but ⁓ mostly what we're talking about is that ⁓ there's two things that keep leaders of stuck at their current level. ⁓ Those two things are not knowing what makes them uniquely effective and not knowing how they sabotage their own effectiveness. So we believe that the consequences of that are that
that leaders kind of top out prematurely and they get to ⁓ they they stop developing, they stop or they don't perform at at a level they could perform at because of those two things. And so so that's a kind of a brief setup for this ⁓ brief intro for you, Megan. You and I have known each other for ⁓ I'm guessing. I don't know what.
10 years, ⁓ nine years. ⁓ So ⁓ Megan, we've had an interesting kind of time. You were the the first person we hired into the MBA rotation program at Experian when you were coming out of Vanderbilt. ⁓ And then following your time at ⁓ Experian, you've moved into another organization and we've had the privilege of working together again.
So, ⁓ so long time we've known each other. You've been through several things and tell us a about what your role is now ⁓ and where you're at.
Meghan Mouser (01:50)
Yeah, so I lead the revenue cycle management product teams over at KIPU Health. So in charge of just the general strategy direction and really elevating that solution set.
Roger Johnson (02:07)
Beautiful. And, and a Vanderbilt grad, undergrad and graduate school, correct? And then I guess what's really interesting is one little tidbit fun fact about you is that you didn't you you did some interesting stuff before you went to get your MBA. Just real quick. I think people would love to hear this. So what did you do before you got your MBA?
Meghan Mouser (02:29)
Yeah, so I was originally a counselor. I went straight through undergrad, did a master's in education and human development counseling, did drug and alcohol counseling before moving into the school system, was in the schools for four years before deciding I wanted to do a career shift, and then ultimately went back and got me an MBA at Vanderbilt. And that's kind of when our paths intersected for the first time.
Roger Johnson (02:55)
Yeah. Well, that's one of the most, I think, things I was most impressed with you ⁓ about you is that your your breadth of experience, knowledge, kind of education and the way that you come at leadership ⁓ is very different because of the way that you that that experience of being in both of those kind of counseling settings, both drug and alcohol and and in schools. I think your passion, your
kind the way you approach people and ⁓ leadership in general. ⁓ Always been impressed with that. And side note, always been pretty impressed with ⁓ people who ⁓ have some really interesting work experience before they go and get their ⁓ MBA and then come out. ⁓ So kudos to you. So let's have a conversation about feedback. ⁓ Interested in... ⁓
What has been your experience with feedback in the different organizations you've worked with? Because you've worked with a good variety of ⁓ organizations. Love to hear kind of what your experience has been over the years.
Meghan Mouser (04:03)
Yeah, so it's a great question. And I think if I go back to middle school, actually, I had a teacher that every single day for social studies, he'd write a quote on the board that you had a copy in your notebook about, like, improvement and how to be better. And so I think kind of naturally being a high achiever, and then having this mindset of, okay, I can always do better, I can always be better. I think I've naturally always sought out feedback.
And especially as an individual contributor, if you're a high performer and you do work and you take on extra tasks, people generally say, you're doing a great job or just keep doing what you're doing. And that's something that I notice, you know, in the school systems, in internship opportunities, while I was in business school and then even, you know, coming out with at Experian or
you know, even at KIPU there's parts where people are just like, they're praising what's good or what they like. What I've really struggled with is getting some of that harder feedback of how can I actually improve and get better? What do I need to be doing differently to elevate myself, thereby elevating my teams and the organization as a whole?
Roger Johnson (05:29)
Yeah, I think that's that's super kind of interesting because what you're pointing to is this idea that that that ⁓ kind of higher level achievers, people are just so grateful to have them that that they they don't provide anything really specific. And so they kind of kind of feel like I'm doing well. But they kind of leave some stuff on the table in terms of not being able to really talk about how do we how do we provide
additional more concrete information to help you go like, hey, you do this really well. ⁓ You can be even better. You can be even sharper. And there's a little bit of like, well, ⁓ you don't necessarily get those specifics because people are just happy that you're there.
Meghan Mouser (06:16)
Yes, I think that and then also read Radical Candor by Kim Scott and one of her things is around Runeus empathy. And a lot of times, you people feel bad or they feel guilty for giving the negative feedback or if it's an uncomfortable situation. And if you haven't been coached or taught how to do that, it's not a skill set that I think a lot of people naturally have.
Roger Johnson (06:44)
Yeah, so I think it's interesting, like coached or taught. ⁓ What's your experience with people like with where where do you think people get that coaching, that teaching, that kind of, ⁓ I guess, preparation to actually provide that kind of useful feedback in your experience? Where does that come from?
Meghan Mouser (07:07)
either mentors or, you know, obviously I've worked with you in executive coaching capacity and as a boss. And I think you are someone who can provide that kind of detailed information or help facilitate getting that information from others, you know, through a 360 process that, otherwise I personally wouldn't have had access to.
Roger Johnson (07:33)
Yeah. So so very curious because I have this I have some thoughts on this, but I'm wondering what your thoughts on that or what allows you to trust feedback or what causes you to distrust feedback?
Meghan Mouser (07:48)
So I trust feedback more if it's coming from someone that I know has my best interests, like at heart or at play. I trust it more if I value the person or the leader. I tend to distrust feedback when it's
coming from someone who maybe I'm like, well, I'm not sure if I necessarily.
It's not that don't value the person or the individual, but I'm like, if you're not being successful, or if you're giving feedback that's more like, hey, I'm either throwing you under the bus, or I'm trying to elevate myself in the process, I guess more just in a way.
Roger Johnson (08:50)
Yeah, disingenuous. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's that's good. You have a lot. Do you have some experiences and you don't have to kind of name names organizations. But like, what are what are some of the I would say the least like I saw? Like, so I got I got some experience ⁓ throughout my career. And obviously, I'm at the you know, I'm a little older than you. ⁓
But I've had some experiences in my career where I've gotten, oh, hey, we're going to give you a 360. Or hey, we're going to, or you sit down with your boss and your boss is like, hey, I've got some feedback on an annual review. And for me, I remember feeling like there was very little tangible, like for my boss who didn't really see me in action.
yet sitting there giving me some kind of some very generic feedback, mostly about did the business hit the results, not how I led, and then getting some 360 feedback where ⁓ where I got some comments that were totally out of context. And so they may have been true. They may have been right, but I didn't understand the context. And so it was it was less helpful. You have any experiences like that? Have you kind of had had some of that as well?
Meghan Mouser (10:12)
Yeah, so I have two different experiences to talk about and one I think really gets at my original answer. So I was in a school system and we, the school counselors were in charge of state testing. I had teachers report that my principal was cheating on the state testing. And so I reported it and she found out I reported it and we had to do annual evaluations every year and to make a long story very short.
she evaluated me on a session that she never attended. And so that was a whole thing in experience. And I wasn't going to trust anything that she told me because the whole basis of the evaluation was on false pretenses. So that was, that's an extreme example. But I think
Roger Johnson (11:01)
It's a little bit of like, little bit retribution. Yeah, but some retribution,
that's interesting. yeah, that's hard.
Meghan Mouser (11:09)
Yep.
But on the flip side, I've also done, so I've done two different 360 experiences. One was kind of a more standardized questions where you basically send out a survey to a bunch of different people. So people who are above you in the organization at your level, people who report to you, and then just other individuals as well. And
I also had to evaluate myself on that 360. And I think, you know, there was value in kind of seeing how I related myself compared to others. But at the same time, that data wasn't as helpful just receiving that data because there wasn't necessarily context for it. And so I had to have a ton of follow up conversations.
to really make meaning out of it. So some people answered this survey for based on how I'm performing in my current role. Some people answered the survey based on how they think I would perform if I was at the next level in the organization. And so I had to go in and do a lot of work to make sense of it. ⁓ I also did a 360 with you, which was a very different experience. essentially
gave you a list of people that I wanted you to interview. So they were people who I trusted. They were also people that I knew had seen me at my best and probably at my worst and who were willing to take, you know, hour block of their time to share their experiences of me and my work with you. And so that was like fundamentally different.
I think one, because you interviewed them so you could capture their stories and dig deeper into the feedback. And then you could start to track themes. And then you synthesize that information very easily for me. So wasn't necessarily that I was having to go do a lot of follow-up work to make the connections myself. I could take what you gave me and then
come up with an action plan.
Roger Johnson (13:39)
Yeah, yeah, it's ⁓ well, appreciate appreciate that. think that the I've had that similar experience and I think the reason I created that the process that you went through that we went through together, ⁓ which, by the way, not rocket science, I think there's I'm not the only one that that necessarily ⁓ goes and interviews people. I think that there's some uniqueness about the way that we synthesize it. But but ⁓
But those things are pretty interesting. the idea of ⁓ selecting folks who have seen you kind of do work, who do have your best interest at heart, and then bringing that information ⁓ together. I'm curious for you, as you compare the different kind of 360s ⁓ that you've participated in or feedback you've gotten. ⁓
What was the tangible like what what what value did you get from from that? What tangible difference does that make for you as you execute leadership, as you as you make decisions, as you decide how you're going to show up and navigate your career and navigate your situations ⁓ in in in the organization?
Meghan Mouser (14:56)
Yeah, so when we did the 360, was when I, right after I was promoted from director to VP and the lens at which, you know, we did the 360 was really in terms of leadership. And as we kind of explored that 360 profile, you know, there was a decision point, right? Like I am a good,
you know, mid manage like a really good mid manager and I can execute really well. If I want to be like a great executive, there were things that I was going to have to do in order to like step up and fill like those like shoes or fill that role. And one of the things you know, that we I think actioned pretty early on was
like stop taking permission and start doing. And I think that was one of the themes in terms of, know, influence. It's like, hey, people trust you, people value you, but sometimes you kind of hold back and don't say what you're thinking or you look to others to take permission versus coming from a place of authority.
And it sounds super simple when you say it and like as I'm saying it out loud now, but it was one of the things that I didn't necessarily realize that I was doing in the moment. I think sometimes I could pick up on it, but you know, having it there and then saying like, okay, like in order to really step up, I need to do this. And then, okay, what is the plan to then go in and do that? And I think that led to a lot of conversations around
you know, relaxing into leadership and understanding, you know, what was keeping me from showing up in a position of authority or as an expert in the room with the executive leadership team.
Roger Johnson (17:03)
Yeah, so so that connects. ⁓
really well with the idea that we don't see ourselves accurately. Like I don't see myself accurately, you don't see yourself accurately. I don't think anybody really sees themselves accurately. kind of see ourselves through a blurry mirror that's got all this mix of voices and confusion, different things. And so, you're someone who, if you don't mind me saying,
really high achiever. Everyone views you as like ⁓ an expert. Like you're you you are one of the most, I would say, informed, ⁓ researched person in the room, whatever room you're in. Like you're going to go in prepared. But your perception of yourself is that you didn't have kind of the the the chops to actually be in the room, to actually
have a voice at the table, not from an arrogant perspective, but more from a humble perspective. I really, I do have a lot to offer here. I'm a gift to this room. Like I, I have, I'm a gift to the organization. Let's jump in here. And you were kind of sitting back and waiting for permission, waiting to be asked, waiting to be kind of, kind of given the platform. ⁓ And I think that, you know, as you, as we progress throughout our, you know, different levels in the organization, ⁓
That was a big shift to go like, oh, no, I am. I actually do have the confidence because I know that people in the room, people in the organization view me as an expert, as someone who has a lot to offer. I can show up differently. And that's the thing about knowing and having confirmation and clarity on I do have this kind of unique skill set that I bring to the table.
I'm not guessing at what that is. And so I can show up differently.
Meghan Mouser (19:09)
100%. And it's for me, it's like, how do you show up differently? And then how do you also communicate effectively when you show?
Roger Johnson (19:22)
Yeah, talk about that. Talk about what that...
Meghan Mouser (19:24)
Because like, yeah, was gonna say like
one of the other things that came up was you can read my face pretty well most of the time. And you know, people could see when I was getting frustrated. And then when I finally would speak, it was coming from a place of frustration and potentially my tone was off or I was highlighting the negative versus kind of reframing.
what I was thinking to really drive the conversation forward and bring people along with me, which I think is also a huge skill in terms of leadership, like taking others along the journey, understand what you're thinking, how you're getting from point A to point B and getting buy-in from people around you.
Roger Johnson (20:18)
Yeah. Yeah. Like I can just see it. I can just see it like having experienced it with you is your your four or five steps ahead. That's the group is a little bit a little bit behind. And for you to kind of come back and gently kind of explain, explain reasoning, explain thinking, kind of bring people along rather than kind of rather than kind of sit on it and then kind of kind of come out with like, no, this is what we should do. And and more frustrated.
I think that's an interesting, I would say, skill or kind of thing to transition over is to go like, ⁓ as we as we get more experience, as you're a higher level ⁓ leader performer, you're given more ⁓ to be able to kind of bring people with you to be able to kind of understand that not everybody has the same level of information that you have. ⁓ And so
So being willing to kind of proactively bring people along, that allows you to have a tone that is much more even, invitational, but rather than kind of like. Frustrated that this conversation is going in a direction that's really not helpful, and so I'm going to explode.
Meghan Mouser (21:35)
for sure. And I think the other thing that like has also helped with this too, is that, you you had conversations with people at my company and they were willing to engage in those conversations. And they were also very transparent with me outside of the work that we did and said, Hey, you know, this is what I told Roger. And it gave me a platform to then one for them to go and like share the information directly with me. And then for me to go in,
and check back in with them to see what works and what's working, what's not working. So one, I continuing to grow. Two, I'm building stronger relationships with the ⁓ individuals that you interviewed and helped propel my brand and name that way. Because one of the things that we talked about was, hey, you're at this tipping point. You have to make a decision.
of do you want to be a leader or do you want to like keep going where you are? And so I think some of those conversations also help to signal to others that like, no, I'm serious. Like I want to grow in my role and I want to lead in this company and I want to be, you know, an expert and someone who can really help drive us to the next level.
Roger Johnson (22:58)
Yeah. So if you that that points to something that's that's super interesting to me, which is like ⁓ is it's not that the people that you worked with didn't know what they were going to tell me. It's that they didn't tell you. I find that that like that all like it always happens like I like I'm sure that everybody in my life has thoughts about me, but they're not telling me.
Meghan Mouser (23:13)
Mm-hmm.
Roger Johnson (23:27)
⁓ They're not proactively coming up and giving that. so there is a sense of like you gave people permission. You kind of gave people this kind of sense of I'm signaling to people I need, I want, ⁓ I'm here for your input. ⁓ And then they gave it. They gave it to me. They gave it to you. And all of a sudden you have this kind of fuel to go, ⁓
Here's what I'm really great at, which I'm sure you could list off, which would be fun for you to list off. Here's what you know you're really good at. But then also, not your weaknesses, but here's how you sabotage those strengths. I don't really care about weaknesses as much, but the sabotage of your strengths is interesting ⁓ to me. So I think those two concepts is people aren't gonna tell you proactively.
Meghan Mouser (24:12)
Yes.
Roger Johnson (24:26)
At least I find that that's the case. It's the rare person that's gonna come up and kind of give you unsolicited feedback that's really helpful. ⁓ And two, usually the feedback is focused on weaknesses, not necessarily focused on like, man, here's what you're really good at. And we really need that. We need more of that. We need more of you doing those type of things. What's your, I'd love to hear your thoughts on those two things.
Meghan Mouser (24:44)
Right.
So one, yes, like I think the big thing for me is like, hey, this is kind of what's sabotaging what you're really great at and how you're kind of decreasing your brand within the organization. And sometimes it might be something so trivial that you didn't even realize that you were doing. And so being able to like there are certain things that you can like correctly like
fix, change, and it just makes a world of difference. And then there are other things you're like at weaknesses, like more about like things I can improve. think part of it too was like recognizing there are going to be some things that like it's never going to be my strength. Like I can go in and create a base financial model and do some analysis, but I am never going to be like a master ⁓ like finance.
individual, like I am not going to be a CFO. And so that's work that like I will potentially outsource to someone else to do or to get help with. And I think, you know, as someone who wants to always do better or be better, think one of the things that you said to me on my very first review at Experian, like, circa 2017 2018 was like,
Don't look at the weaknesses or the opportunities. I think they were. You're like, read what you're good at. And that was very hard for me because I'm like, all right, like what's wrong with me? Not like what's right with me and just focusing in on, like you're really good at this. Like you have a skill, like embrace this, own this, be this, and continue to drive that forward. And be be proud of it. Don't be like, ⁓
Roger Johnson (26:46)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's super interesting to me. so like working with high achievers, working with people, you know, in the program, it's all people who graduate with their MBA, but working with, you know, high achieving executives for the last 20, 30 years. It's super interesting to me how we have this sense of like we want people to perform at a high level, but we don't want them to be confident. We don't want them to be
self-assured in those things because we think it's going to make them arrogant. And so people just pretend like I'm not certain exactly what what people like about me. So I try to be good at everything. And I've done the same thing. I've tried to like I like I've done the exact same thing. And I remember not having this sense of like, what do people really value about me? What do I bring to the table? Like I'm just I'm a you know, I'm a guy I'm leading this this part of the business at Experian I'm I'm doing. ⁓
I'm leading teams, I'm doing this stuff, but not really understanding what are the people like really value who report to me? What do my peers think? What are the people above me think? And so I just try to be show up as a kind of perform like I'm I'm just going to try to be good at everything and give everybody this sense of like of, know, I'm super confident all the time, whatever. I remember walking in the meetings feeling like I. I am insecure, I'm not.
I don't really know what people value about me. And so I wouldn't talk as much or I or I would or I would talk at the wrong times. I would I just felt so off balance. And I and and merely because of this kind of sense of of. Not not really focusing on where I had the had the highest strengths and being able to talk from that level of I'd say clarity.
and confidence, not arrogance. Clarity actually gives humble confidence, not the other way around. But we have so many. So I've experienced that. know I know I you and I've talked about that, but that is so common. It's so common. I remember talking with several other people ⁓ in that same program who who high achievers who just had no were so unwilling to go. I'm good at that.
Like, I know I'm good at that. And so I'm going to be good at that because that offers value to the company and offers value to my coworkers. They would kind of go like, I got to be humble. I got to stay back. I got to I got to not ⁓ not own that. And you use the word relax into your your I used to say, like, relax into your greatness, like you're great. Relax into that. You're not great at everything, but the things you are great. You need to relax and just perform.
So just find that super, it's very consistent with my experience. I'm glad you, I'm glad you mentioned that because, ⁓ because it is super interesting that we, walk, you know, it's a very common experience, even for leaders who are high achieving and high performing.
Meghan Mouser (30:08)
And I think that would be, I didn't know that until much later in my career journey. And so then I'm like, okay, well, maybe it's just me, maybe there's something wrong with me. And I think that like fueled this some self doubt versus like being able to work through like one owning what I'm good at two realizing like, I'm not the only one who feels this way. Like this is normal.
Roger Johnson (30:37)
Yeah.
Meghan Mouser (30:37)
And
like, what are you going to do to really move and elevate yourself?
Roger Johnson (30:42)
Yeah. And I think the, you know, one of the things I applaud in you is and probably started, like you said, back in what middle school as a sense of like, I want to be effective. I want to be better. Now you're highly critical of yourself. You are someone who's never going to be satisfied with your performance. And ⁓ so, you know, one of things I always want you to do is go
I know, I can add a lot of value without necessarily the self-criticism. ⁓ But ⁓ I think that is something that openness to go, hey, I need this, I want this, I'm gonna keep going at it. And ⁓ I think that's contagious. I think it's contagious for you, it's contagious for your team, it is for the people that work with you to go, ⁓ Meghan's that kind of person, I can have that dialogue.
if I can have that conversation with and I'm not gonna feel like I'm always being criticized. Have you seen that with your employees? Have you seen that with your peers?
Meghan Mouser (31:45)
And I.
Yeah, so yes, and like one to add to it was kind of like another aha moment. So I am the way I am, and like continue to grow and evolve. And so I've had to like also separate out like, what is going to add value? Like if I do something 90 % of the way, that's probably way more than I needed to do. There's no value.
and me like getting to 100%. And so kind of understanding that piece. And that's something that, you know, working with some members on my team who are also very similar, they're like, but it's not perfect. It's not all the way there. And really having those conversations around like, is that extra effort worth it? Like yes or no? And like, how do you learn to be okay?
and even happy and proud of yourself when you're not meeting some unrealistic expectation. Because at the end of the day, that unrealistic expectation isn't what's going to drive that business forward. Getting things done, done well, doing forward momentum, and iterating upon it. And I think some of those conversations have really opened up the opportunity with either
Roger Johnson (33:01)
Yeah.
Meghan Mouser (33:14)
direct reports or other people that I've mentored over time who are like, ⁓ like you understand you get this. so hopefully kind of passing down the knowledge. And I think the other piece is like the expectations I have for myself and like the pace at which I can go and drive. Like I need to make sure I'm not creating an unsustainable work environment for
both my team and my cross-functional peers, because that will then, you know, one of my greatest, or it's the two like greatest strengths that work together really around like influence and just like people engagement. And so if I am not mindful and intentional of...
my expectations, like the unrealistic expectations I can take away from what I'm
Roger Johnson (34:12)
Yeah. So I was I was just going to say the question in my mind I was thinking about is is ⁓ is it a once and done kind of thing? Like you've got the feedback, you got the this, you know, this good information, you know what you're good at, you know, kind of what people value about you, you know how you sabotage yourself. ⁓ It sounds to me like that that. That you're similar to me.
Like I might know, but I need to be reminded. Like I might like for some reason that those kind of things come back. The self doubt comes back. The ⁓ the tendency to try to be good at things. not naturally like that, that that aren't affirmed gifts or. ⁓ And so there's that need to to be reminded. And I like just.
There's so much about me. There's this voice in my head that says, that says, oh, that's weak. you're, you know, the fact that you need, that you need to be reminded is a, a, is a, is a weakness. That's for me. I think it's, but it's true for the people that I work with. Do you find like, what, what's helpful to you, even though you've got the 360, do you need that same level of kind of go back and be reminded?
Meghan Mouser (35:39)
Yes. So I have the ugliest PowerPoint slide that I think anyone has ever created. And it on it, it has like, this is what you're good at. It also has reminders, like kind of, so bringing back the counseling background, there's like this red, yellow, green exercise. Like green is like things are things that are happening that signify like that you are like operating and doing things at your best, like yellow. ⁓
things are slightly off track and like red, they're definitely off track. this like slide has, you know, things that I'm like really good at, like things that like, hey, if this is coming up, like you might need to do some like introspection and see like what's going on in your life that's making you like use this behavior. There's other just kind of random like.
feedback that people have given me kind of as an affirmation, like reminders to kind of prioritize for me. It's like, I need sleep, I need a really good workout, and I need to eat well, like just to have like the base foundation to help me operate at my best, kind of regardless of what other stressors are going on. So it's all of that in a very ugly format.
Roger Johnson (37:01)
So how often do you look at that? Like what's the...
Meghan Mouser (37:02)
Um,
it depends. there are times where I look at it, you know, every day before work. And then there are times where, you know, just more in the groove than it might be like once a month.
Roger Johnson (37:15)
Yeah. That's good. I love I love how you created that. ⁓ That's a that's a reminds me of someone that that we both know who who had had a similar type of document, but they taped it to the outside of their their computer. They carried it with them everywhere. And that's a that's a great reminder. ⁓ Well, good. So, Megan, interesting what like ⁓
What is a what's a current challenge you're dealing with right now that you're like, hey, this is something as a leader I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to attack anything that you you're willing to put out there.
Meghan Mouser (37:59)
Yeah, so as we're kind of continuing to grow, we have some opportunities ahead of us that are going to require a lot of work, a lot of cross-functional partnership. ⁓ And so we're in the SaaS business, developing product. And there's some stuff that typically you have product release
processes and launch plans and in order to meet the opportunity in the market, you we're going to be way more start up ish and expecting a lot of the team. And for me, it's how do I help the team balance kind of the stress and anxiety of the rapid pace in which we're while kind of maintaining work life balance.
while getting everything that we need to do accomplished. And I think for me, I have a tendency to like, wanna jump in and I need to really make sure that everyone on my team is empowered to do what they need to do. Cause right now they are the experts. I'm a step removed from it so that they can be successful and really make sure I'm giving them what they need in the moment.
Roger Johnson (39:27)
good challenge. That's good. ⁓ giving them what they need, not jumping in to fix stuff, making sure that people understand the balance of ⁓ high growth, not necessarily a lot of clarity. Sounds like you guys are kind of moving back into a garage and just kind of like ⁓ making stuff happen, ⁓ which is ⁓ both. I love how you say it's an opportunity.
Meghan Mouser (39:55)
Yeah, it's a huge
opportunity.
Roger Johnson (39:58)
That's huge. That's huge. Well, Well, Megan, thanks. Wish you all the best with that. And thanks for sharing ⁓ your insight with us. Thanks for having the conversation for your vulnerability ⁓ and jumping in on this podcast. I appreciate it.
Meghan Mouser (40:14)
Thanks Roger, happy to be here.
Roger Johnson (40:17)
All right. Thanks. Bye.
Meghan Mouser (40:18)